Listen, Learn & Love Hosted By Richard Ostler

My friends Ashli Carnicelli, Trina Caudle, and McArthur Krishna join us to talk about their new book “Cherish: the Joy of Our Mother in Heaven.” The book is organized around the Gospel Topics essay on Heavenly Mother. The book authors talk about why they wrote the book, their thoughtful and moving feelings about Heavenly Mother, and the spiritual benefits in our lives of having a Heavenly Mother. This book is supportive of the Church, leaders, and our doctrine. It is a book to help make the doctrine of our Heavenly Mother real, intentional, and active in our lives—and in Church conversations. Thank you, Ashli, Trina and McArthur, for your needed work. I was deeply moved by your insights and good hearts. I encourage everyone to read this book. Podcast Links: Amazon link for CHERISH: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1948218879 A Couple's Guide to Creating a More Divine Marriage (eBook): https://dstreetpress.myshopify.com/collections/frontpage/products/a-couples-guide-to-creating-a-more-divine-marria

My friend Richie Steadman (active LDS, podcaster, DJ, great human) joins us to share some of his story. Richie talks about how life, following his successful mission in Cleveland, took some unexpected turns which included Richie being out of the Church for several years. Richie is open about that and how he navigated not only the mistakes he made but painful church experiences around those mistakes that didn’t feel like Jesus. Richie also talks about his many interests and how we found his way to a steady career—a story that is very helpful for younger Latter-day Saints whose career interests may not fit into the nice tidy box of Church culture expectations. Richie also shares the backstory of starting The Cultural Hall Podcast twelve years ago—one of the very first Latter-day Saint themed podcast that is approaching 700 episodes. A podcast that is doing much good in our community. He also talks about his work professionally to help other podcasters get their efforts off the ground. Thank you,

My friend Emily Evans (UVU grad, San Antonio/Austin, RM, plans to marry her girlfriend) joins us to share her story. Emily talks about her years prior to her mission trying to figure out her sexuality. Part of that journey was being in a relationship with her boyfriend and also falling in love with a female friend. Emily talks about the difference in these experiences helping to clarify her sexuality. She talks about the support from both her straight boyfriend and her straight female friend and how they were both open to this conversation. During this time Emily came out to some friends and family (good experience). Emily then talks about her decision to serve a mission and her desire to live a life of celibacy. She talks about her positive mission experience and glad she served. Emily then talks about life after her mission and rethinking her plans to be celibate and instead consider dating women. Emily talks about falling in love and hopes for their upcoming wedding. Emily talks about h

My friend Thomas Auseuga joins us from Brisbane, Australia (my first LGBTQ guest from Australia) to share his story. Thomas (who is in his 20's and served a mission in the Philippines) talks about realizing he was different around age 12 and then processing that alone until he came out as gay to his mother at age 16. Thomas talks about believing he was the only Latter-day Saint with these feelings and concluding he was a bad person. He talks about all the gay jokes and rhetoric that led to immense—and deserved—shame. Thomas talks about his young adult years and then coming out again to his mother at age 22 before his mission—including why being gay was not discussed during the six years since coming out at age 16. Thomas talks about how his relationship with Heavenly Father and his Savior is crucial to his journey. Thomas talks about his mission (good experience), returning home, and his efforts to find a girl and get married. Thomas talks about the anxiety of dating and being reminded of not being unable

My friends Dr. Jordon and Liz Sharp (LDS parents of five children) join us from St George, Utah to share their story of hope and healing. Jordon (VP of Marketing at Utah Tech University) and Liz (Registered Hospice Nurse) share their unexpected journey as a traditional LDS family who experienced everything from trauma, confusion, and loss to miracles, enlightenment, and overwhelming joy as they became a LDS/LQBTQ family through their gay son Sam (who turns 18 in 2023 and is the oldest). Jordon and Liz start their experience when Jordon served as a Bishop to a closeted gay young woman in their ward who attempted suicide and they were the first-responders on the scene; but describe how this terrible situation helped them more fully understand our Heavenly Parents love for all their children. It’s a powerful part of their story. Jordon and Liz then talk about the text they received years later from their then 13-year-old-son Sam letting them know he is gay. They intimately and powerfully share their roadmap of

My friend Thomas Swain joins us from New Zealand to share his story. Thomas (who grew up in England) starts with knowing at an early age he had feelings for someone of the same gender but put that away and moved forward. Thomas talks about his wonderful mission experience (West Indies 2006-2008), teaching at the New Zealand MTC for 5 years and working for church media productions. These were deeply spiritual times for Thomas which also allowed him to put this attract to men on the shelf. After the MTC assignment, Thomas talks about the 10+ years working to marry a woman and how all those relationships ended. That filled Thomas with the pain of not being able to fall in love and move to his next step as a Latter-day Saint and also knowing he left behind women thinking the breakup might have been their fault. That led Thomas to some of his darkest days with feelings of suicidal ideation. Concurrent with not being able to fall in love with a women, Thomas did many things to serve in our Church includin

My friend Aubrey Dabel joins us to share bravely share her story hopes others do not feel alone. Aubrey starts her story in High School (Southern Oregon) realizing she is attracted to girls and unexpectedly falling in love. That led Aubrey to a lot of shame and self-loathing. Aubrey talks turning to her Heavenly Father and Temple attendance to find peace and hope. She also talks about her supportive parents. Aubrey talks about her mission—both positive and some negative experiences. Aubrey is pleased with her service and feels love and support from her mission family. Aubrey talks about balancing her relationship with the Church and honoring her sexuality. She talks about people that have been helpful in her life sitting with her and validating the complexity of her path forward. Aubrey talks about her hopes and the importance of being vulnerable. She concludes the podcast with her powerful testimony. Thank you for being on the podcast Aubrey. You are brave. You are courageous. Your

My friend Sarah Carter (active LDS, mother of three, Masters of Social Work) shares her journey growing up with abuse and trauma—and her story of not fitting the mold of a typical LDS youth. Sarah talks about how that abuse and trauma was tied to her three marriages that ended. After those marriages, Sarah looked inward with new clarity about the work she needed to do to heal and overcome over 20 years of trauma. Sarah knew that with good therapy, hard work and the Savior, she could break the cycle of trauma. Sarah also talks about her wonderful younger brother Daniel who died by suicide in 2014 at the age of 28. It is a tribute to him and his good heart—and turning to unhelpful coping mechanisms to deal with the pain and reality of his life. Sarah is now a LCSW and runs her own practice (see the show notes). Because of her own personal story, academic training, and clinical work, Sarah is able to help others. If you are in a tough spot and looking for hope, Sarah’s story will help you. Thank

My friend Julie Cluff joins us from her home in Tennessee to share the story of being the driver of the vehicle, when she fell asleep, resulting in a rollover car accident that claimed the lives of her 10-year-old daughter Carrie and her 8-year-old son David. The accident happened on Mother’s Day in 2007. It is a parent’s worst nightmare. Julie bravely shares her story of grief/darkness and then her path to find peace and hope. It is a powerful story. Julie talks about the book she wrote in 2020 called “Miracles in the Darkness: Building a Life after Loss”, her work as a grief coach and trainer, and podcaster. If you are in grief¸ Julie’s podcast will help you. She talks about therapy, Jesus, her husband, friends, and the work she did personally to find hope and peace after unimaginable loss. And you might feel impressed to read her book and/or become a grief coach to help others. Thank you, Julie, for being on the podcast and your needed work in our community and beyond. Podcast links:

My friend Stephen Monsen (Richfield Utah native, Wichita Kansas RM) joins us to bravely share his story. Stephen divides his story into four parts: The early years: Figuring out at age 17 he is gay and the immense shame he felt about his attractions. College freshman year: Intense loneliness, depression, some self-harm and coming out to this Bishop (good experience). Stephen talks about how his second semester was much better and turning in his mission papers. Mission: Stephen talks about his mission experience including serving others, companion experiences, improving his relationship with Heavenly Father, and coming out to his Mission President (good experience). He also talks about how the mission helped him accept being gay. Post Mission: Coming out to family (good experience), working with Heavenly Father to figure out his future, what he would know say to his 17-year-old self. I was deeply moved listening to Stephen and his deep maturity, his courage, and his desire to help ot

** Trigger Warning: This podcast talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988 ** My friends Dave and Kimi Martin join us to talk about their transgender son Levi who died of suicide in December of 2022 at the age of 17. Dave and Kimi (active LDS, Parents of 7, Live in Massachusetts) share their story of the journey to understand and then support their son. They do this to honor Levi and also to invite us to do better. They talk about their bright, intelligent son Levi—and their joint efforts to understand the cause of his emotional challenges which was finally understood to be being transgender. Even with that understanding they talk about how Levi—turning 18—was “terrified of how society treats transgender persons.” The Martins talk about the principle of “proximity” and the need to listen to and understand people different than how that helps us better love and support them. They talk about the heartache of losing a child, hopes on how we can do better to support queer

My friend McKenna Goodrich joins us via Zoom from her home in Georgia to bravely share her story in hopes of helping others. McKenna talks about coming out to herself knowing she was different and then coming out to others. McKenna talks her personal relationship with Jesus and love from her Heavenly Father that is helping her on her journey. McKenna (whose Mom Alicia Hall was on Episode 596) talks about the experiences that led her to understand she is lesbian how that, along with being a beloved daughter of God, is part of her identity—both being good things. McKenna talks about her patriarchal blessing, why she is a member of the Church, why she hopes to serve and mission, and her hopes for the future. McKenna is a member of Gen Z of which 19.7% identify as LGBTQ (Gallup). Great episode for Y/W leaders to listen and then counsel together on how to support Y/W who are not straight/cis (including those who are not out). McKenna has great support from her Y/W leaders. Thank you, McKenna, f

My friend Emily Robinson Adams (married mother of three, appellate attorney) join us to talk about her new book called “Divine Quietness: Fining Meaning When Heaven is Silent”. In the book, Emily bravely shares her journey with prayers met with silence. She talks about why a loving God would not answer her prayers. Emily shares her experience—which occurred over a couple of years—to deconstruct and then reconstruct her belief in and relationship with God using a completely new framework. She talks about the books, practices, analogies and perspectives that helps her reconstruct her relationship with God. I was deeply moved listening to Emily. If you are wondering if God is there and/or why your prayers do not feel like they are being answered, Emily’s book will help you. It is not just theory—it includes her own powerful and vulnerable story. Emily’s book will also help you better help others. Thank you, Emily, for writing this book and being on the podcast. Your voice is so needed in our

My friends Allison Dayton (founder of Lift and Love) and Ben Schilaty (co-host of Questions From The Closet and Author) join us to talk about a new LDS/LGBTQ event called “Gather: Christ-centered support for Latter-day Saint LGBTQ individuals and those who love them”. The conference is on Sept 15th and 16th, 2023 at Utah Valley Convention Center, Provo, Utah. Allison and Ben talk about why they (and others) decided to do the conference, who is invited, goals, logistics, speakers, and their personal hopes for the conference. I was deeply moved listening to Allison and Ben as they shared some of their story and the hopes for this conference. I encourage everyone to attend this conference and invite others. It will help you. And help all of us better create Zion. Podcast Links: Gather: https://gather-conference.com/ Lift and Love: https://www.liftandlove.org/ Questions From The Closet: https://questionsfromthecloset.com/ Ben Schilaty’s Book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08PNM4GFC

My friend Mary Alice Hatch (married mother of 2) joins us from her home in San Clemente, California to share her story. Mary Alice talks about her son coming home from his mission early after receiving personal revelation it was the right thing to do. She talks about her support of her son and honoring his personal revelation and the need for our culture to do the same. This experience of seeing first-hand how the culture can be damaging for some Latter-day Saints, inspired Mary Alice to start a podcast call “What Now” which focused on how to improve the experience for Latter-day Saints. It is a powerful and needed podcast in our community. Mary Alice also talks about what her Relief Society Presidency is doing to create a safe culture for members to feel safe opening up about the realities of their lives so we can better heal and support others. She talks about how “people don’t connect to perfection but to vulnerability”. Mary Alice offers ideas on what we can do in our circle of influence to im

My friends Hunter Steele (Age 24, BYU Journalism Major, Kennewick Washington RM) and his mother Amie Steele (married mother of three) join us to share their story. Hunter starts with his story growing up in Nephi, Utah (student body president of his high school) trying to reconcile his sexual orientation in a very heteronormative environment. Hunter talks about his mission (good experience) and then returning home realizing he was still attracted to men. Hunter talks about doing all things “with God” in his journey which led him to come out to his therapist and parents (both good experiences). Hunter then talks about why he came out publicly. This is a powerful—Spirit led—story. Amie shares her story of Hunter coming out to her (she didn’t ever suspect he was gay) and he journey to love and support Hunter. She talks about relying to Christ, prayer ,and scripture study to navigate this road. They share coming out to extended family and friends and the support and love they are receiving. This

My friend Mitchell Harris (any/all) joins us to share their story as a pansexual non-binary Latter-day Saint. Mitchell is a committed Latter-day Saint, served a mission in Mexico City, and is a Math Education major at BYU. Mitchell talks about their early experience and realizing they are queer and their decision to come out in 2019. Mitchell talks about Transmedicalism (something new to me) and how some non-binary/trans people (like Mitchell) do not experience long-term gender dysphoria—yet are trans/non-binary. Mitchell also talks about Church doctrines that help them maintain faith in Christ and why they are a member of the Church. I learned so much from Mitchell. They helped me consider the things I can do in my circle of influence to improve the experience of queer members. The “Body of Christ” is strengthened by having people like Mitchell in it and their contributions. Thank you, Mitchell, for being on the podcast. Your story will help so many. You can find Mitchell on Twitter a

My friend Katherine Herrmann (divorced, father of 7) joins us to talk about her newly published book called “TransLucent: How I put off my natural man and found a spiritual woman” which is focused on her life experiences as an active Latter-day Saint. In the podcast, Katherine shares how she was compelled to write the book and why it’s important. The book explores a twofold journey of understanding her gender identity as a woman, but also as a daughter of God. Learning to overcome her natural man through social and medical transition, but more importantly with obedience, trusting God, following spiritual promptings, and always staying on the covenant path. The book covers her early years, marriage, family, and divorce. A mixture of experiences with Priesthood leadership. Her years giving hugs at General Conference. How she came to bear her testimony in over 40 wards in 3 years. Getting involved in BYU Women’s Conference and as a volunteer for Time Out For Women. Entering the LDS Singles scene attempting to

My friend Madi Davis (Age 19, BYU Student, Pre-Business) courageously shares her journey with pornography use that started at age 13. Madi (who is the first woman on our podcast talking about her own porn use) shares about how this came into her life and the immense shame she encountered, which was further magnified as this is framed as a male problem. She shares feeling as though she is the only one, and finally bravely talking to her Bishop and feeling the power of the atonement in her life. Madi talks about powerful principles and concepts that have helped her understand and solve her porn use—a framework that is much more effective than we have used in the past. Madi also talks about why she is talking about this, how she hopes her future husband will respond, and what she wishes her younger self understood. Madi is brave—bringing this important subject into the light where we can talk about it and work together to solve it. If you are a parent, local leader or working to solve porn use, Madi’s

My friend Paul Reeve (active Latter-day Saint, Simmons Chair of Mormon Studies at University of Utah, author, married father of six) joins us to talk about his new book (published by Deseret Book) called “Let’s Talk about Race and Priesthood.” This book (forward written by Darius A. Gray) shares the historical facts and personal stories around this important topic. Paul has divided the book into three sections: Phase One: Universal Priesthood and Temples Phase Two: Segregated Priesthood and Temples Phase Three: A Return to Racial Inclusivity Paul talks about why this book is needed, how racism still is a challenge in our Church, how understanding our history—even the difficult chapters—is essential to healing and coming together to create Zion. In addition to the historical facts, Paul humanizes this topic by sharing stories of black Latter-day Saints impacted by priesthood and temple restrictions. I believe it is the responsibility of Latter-day Saints to know our history. I encourage all of