Listen, Learn & Love Hosted By Richard Ostler

My friend Andrew Davis (age 31, self-employed, active LDS, same-sex attraction, podcast host) joins us to bravely share his story. Andrew (who is a son of my awesome mission companion Jamison Davis) courageously talks about his growing up years navigating his attraction to men, porn use, anxiety, and fear—and his prayers for this all to be taken from him. Andrew talks about how his relationship with God and the Savior helped him find peace and hope in his life—including that his SSA attraction/thoughts are not a sin—but acting on them is. Andrew talks about his plans to live a covenant keeping life, how his primary label is a child of God, and his plans to marry a woman in the Temple. Andrews talks about the need for more stories of Latter-day Saints with SSA who have conservative views and are living lives within Church teachings—and the need to better support these members. This led to Andrew starting a podcast called “Sons of God: Conservative Views on Faith & Same-Sex Attraction.” I was de

** Trigger Warning: This podcast discusses suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988 ** My brave friend Jessy Markowitz joins us from Las Vegas to share her story. Jessy starts with the realities of her life resulting in immense pain and, at times, loss of hope. Jessy talks about her father’s death at age 4, being sexually assaulted, and then her brother Dennis’ death from suicide in Feb 2017. Jessy was very close to Dennis and talks about the pain of his death. Jessy, now a married mother, talks about feeling so much darkness and lack of hope in her life following Dennis’ death. Jessy talks about the deeply spiritual experiences that led her to Jesus and to membership in the Church (and later her husband). Jessy talks about the dramatic contrast between her life without Jesus and her life now with Jesus, the Church, and the healing power of His atonement. It is a remarkable story that gives hope to everyone. Jessy talks about her love of the temple (including her husband Mitch

My friend Dallin Patton (from Tucson, Kansas Wichita Mission RM, Senior in Social Work at Utah State University) joins us to bravely share his story. Dallin discusses the years before his mission (navigating his identity, some conversion therapy, and mostly putting it in a “box at the back of his head”). These were difficult years for Dallin. Dallin talks about his decision to serve a mission (spent most of his time in Wichita, Kansas) and often being filled with anxiety that someone would discover his sexual orientation. Dallin talks about how his mission was both incredibly hard and amazing—and how the anxiety and depression led to him coming home after about 17 months of service. Dallin then talks about attending Utah State and dating women as that was his “only hope for a normal life” and “being gay was like a death sentence”. After not being able to make it work with a woman, Dallin talks about how he moved out of the dark space to more light and hope including personal revelation stating “Dallin

My friends Margaret Olsen Hemming and Rev. Dr. Fatimah Salleh (who was on Episode 710) join us to talk about their latest (and final) volume of “The Book of Mormon for the Least of These, Volume 3: Helaman-Moroni.” Margaret and Fatimah share some of the behind-the-scenes story of working together to write these books, their personal journeys with the Book of Mormon, and what they hope to accomplish with their books. Their work helps us read the book from a social justice perspective that speaks to issues of racism, sexism, immigrations, refugees, and socioeconomic inequality—and then consider what we can do in our circle of influence to be better disciples of Christ. I was so moved listening to these inspiring scholars, authors, theologians, and disciples. I will be using their books as I study the Book of Mormon in 2024 and look for things I need to change in my world view to better love, see, and support those walking a harder road. Thank you, Margaret and Fatimah, for your wonderful work. Honor

My friend Sofia Jones (from Bakersfield California, joined Church in March 2021, mid-20s) join us to share her story. Sofia (who grew up Christian) talks about changing her initial assumptions about Latter-day Saints and being willing to meet with the missionaries, read the Book of Mormon, and be baptized. It is a beautiful conversation story with insights on the added gospel understanding unique to our restored Church—which brings peace, hope and perspective. Sofia then talks about being willing to consider her sexual orientation and how her YSA Ward is a safe place to be LGBTQ—including her ward member Adam Garrett (episode 508) who shared helpful insights. Sofia talks about how she never considered that being LGBTQ would be OK to God and compatible with being a Christian. She talks about her journey to find acceptance within herself—and the role of personal revelation—of being asexual and a lesbian. Sofia talks about how “God still loves you and God is still for you”. This is a wonderful podcast f

My friend Dr. Heidi Hastings joins us to talk about her research around betrayal trauma for women in marriages (largely around a husband’s pornography use) She is married, LDS, mother of 4, lives in Frisco, Texas, sex and marriage researcher/educator, teaches Family Stress and Coping for BYU-Idaho online, Master’s and Ph.D. degrees in Human Development and Family Studies from Texas Woman’s University. Dr. Hastings vulnerably shares some of her own story, as well as her research, which includes a model she developed as part of her Ph.D. dissertation called “Stages of Betray of Self-Development.” The five stages (innocence, crisis, aftermath, healing, and transformation) are so helpful to those walking the road of betrayal trauma and those working to help them. Dr. Hastings concludes with important takeaways, including the role of God, how Jesus is “relief,” women need women to heal, the need for couples to communicate about pornography and sexuality, and the unhelpful role of shame in keeping pornogra

My friend Meagan Skidmore (lives in Dallas, LDS parent of a transgender son, life coach, podcaster) joins us to talk about her 4+ year journey of parenting a LGBTQ kiddo. Meagan, in one of the most heartfelt podcasts we’ve done, talks about what parents can do to support their LGBTQ child and what parents can do to take care of themselves. Meagan talks about her own journey to educate herself, separate political rhetoric from facts, being curious, practical ways to listen better, importance of stories, mourning, and personal revelations from God. This is a beautiful family love story. If you are looking for the voice of a thoughtful and seasoned parent in this space, I encourage you to listen to Meagan’s podcast and check out her work. I learned so much from Meagan. Thank you, Meagan, for being on the podcast and all your heartfelt work to bring more understanding, love and support. You are making a huge difference for good in our community! Links: Meagan Skidmore Web Page: meaganskidmorec

My friends Katherine and Jeff Wise (parents of six sons and one daughter, living in the Bay Area ) invite us into the sacred space of their tender story of their youngest son Talmage coming out as gay at age 17 in 2013. Katherine and Jeff (who was serving as a Bishop at the time) talk about their fears, reactions, things they wish they did better, how to find resources, and the personal revelation they received to love and support Talmage. It is a beautiful family love story. They update us on Talmage’s life (he has a wonderful boyfriend and is living his best self in New York) and their continued love for Talmage and his partner Matt. They talk about how they don’t have fears of “empty chairs” in the next life. Katherine and Jeff talk about doing a one-time fireside in their home in March, 2015, focused on supporting LGBTQ members and how that led to The Hearth—a monthly gathering in the Wise home that continues today. They talk about the importance of creating a community of support and love whe

My friend Sean Stansberry (living in New Bern, North Carolina; college student, joined the Church in April 2021) joins us to share his story. Sean starts with joining the church during coronavirus and getting baptized 2.5 weeks later. Sean talks about receiving the priesthood, blessing the sacrament, and attending the temple and being part of young men’s and the youth group for a few months before switching to elders quorum/adult sunday school. Sean talks about the blessing in his life from Church membership. Sean continues with His love of the temple and receiving his endowment and the peace and no-judgment that is part of his temple experience. Sean talks about coming out publicly on social media and in church being SSA and how that was with both positive and difficult experiences at Church in his home ward and his local YSA branch and some experiences that he has had with his church leaders both present and past church leaders. Sean talks about how he navigates the difficult experiences and why he stays

My friend Seth Larson (BYU grad, Bolivia RM, active Latter-day Saint) joins us to bravely share his story. Seth talks about trying to date women in hopes of making the typical path work in the Church and his desire to have a family and fully participate in the Church. Seth talks about feeling suicidal and “sub-par” because of being gay and not being able to make that path work—and shares honest journal entrees with his feelings. Seth talks about being open with his parents and therapist leading to his decision to date men. Seth talks about going slow, being intentional, and involving family/friends/his Bishop in the journey. Seth talks about feeling (for the first time) warm, safe, and secure. Seth talks about how his hope increased and anxiety decreased as he opened his heart/mind to this path. Seth talks about how church and the temple became triggering for him and what his Bishop did to validate these feelings and minister to him. Seth talks about why he is currently in the Church—but not s

My friend Meka Reed (baptized with her husband in October 2020, Lives in Ohio) joins us to talk about her conversation story and her new book called “My Dot Matters: Rediscovering Faith by Realizing Self-Worth”. Meka starts with her life being defined by suicidal ideation and being in the psych ward—and how they all changed when she read the Book of Mormon for the first time. That led to her attending church and getting baptized (and married) on the same day on October 10, 2020. Meka talks about how she still has mental health challenges—but suicide ideation has ended as the Gospel of Jesus Christ has provided healing, hope and purpose. Meka then talks about the spiritual impressions to write and book and the process to get it published. This is a powerful book about finding worth and meaning—and how that happened for Meka in her conversation to the Church. Thank you Meka for being on the podcast. I was so moved hearing your story. You are brave and strong—and helping many others find hope and p

My friend Drew Young (married father of two, author, certified life coach) joins us to talk about his powerful new book called “Wonderful Counselor: A God Who Will Help Us Through Our Darkest Times”. Drew talks about how his own life experiences (his molding years) have helped him understand the limitless role of Christ in our lives to be our “Counselor” to “take our hand and lead us.” Drew talks about how Jesus wants us to be seen, heard, healed, and understood. I was so moved listening to Drew share insights about Jesus and his power/desire to help us. The book has short chapters (twenty-one), using Drew’s own experiences, to help us such as “Jesus Counsels Those Who Feel Crushed”, “Jesus Counsels Those Who Need a Miracle”, and “Jesus Counsels Those who Feel It’s Too Late.” If you want to better understand Jesus and his power to heal, bring peace and hope, I encourage you to check out Drew’s latest book. Thank you Drew for being on the podcast. You are a good man doing much good in our world

My friend Kevin Ahlstrom (married father, mid-30’s, active LDS, attorney living in Southern California) joins us to talk about his journey to understand and love his two gay brothers Kyle and Keith. Kevin talks about his earlier years and learning to put aside past conclusions by listening to queer people and then be in a better position to understand, love and support. Kevin talks about seeing healthy, happy same-sex relationships—and how those relationships can thrive just like straight relationships. Kevin talks about the importance of helping queer people not feel shame for who they are, how this isn’t a disability or something that needs to be endured, and what we can do to better support our queer family members. Kevin talks about how our job is to love and not judge. Kevin also talks about his own faith crisis where he and his wife decided to leave the church over this issue—but then decided to stay. Kevin talks about ten ideas he received on what he can do in his circle of influence to s

My friend Marcus Bowers (BYU grad, two master’s degrees, never married/straight, early release missionary, once suicidal, Iraq veteran) joins us to bravely share his story. Marcus starts with coming home from his mission after two weeks (because of his emotional health) and feeling his path was not to return to full time missionary service and how we can better support early release missionaries. Marcus then talks about getting on with his life (education, military, and his profession) and his journey with mental health issues which culminated in suicidal ideation leading to a stay in a psychiatric ward. Marcus talks about the importance of normalizing mental health struggles, so people feel safe opening up and getting help. Marcus shares what he’d say to his younger self and others feeling suicidal. Marcus then talks about why he stays in the church and resources he used to navigate his own faith crises. Marcus talks about his service in his mid-singles ward and how we can “break the mold” to help a

My friend Madison Frederick (in her early 70s) joins us to talk about her new and important book about narcissism. Madison talks about her story to identity being in a narcissistic relationship (father and former husband) and her journey to understand the controlling behavior and the negative impact on her and the relationship. In the book (which took 5 years to write) Madison also talks about learning to undue her behaviors such as enabling and co-dependency. She also talks about gaslighting and how this manipulation is not part of healthy relationship. I was so impressed with Madison’s courage and vulnerability to share her story with a deep desire to help others. I encourage everyone who wants to improve relationships and learn how “being whole and complete” comes from within, to check out Madison’s book. Thank you, Madison, for being on the podcast! Links: Madison’s Book: https://linktr.ee/madisonf1234 Website: www.madisonfrederick.com/ Email: mfrederick2244@aol.com Phone: 385-4

My friend Rev. Dr. Fatimah Salleh (PhD in Mass Communication, Master’s degree in Public Communication, Master of Divinity from Duke, Married Mother of Three, LDS Author, Grew Up LDS/RM) joins us to share insights about the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Fatimah (co-author of “The Book of Mormon for the Least of These” a three-volume series; and her new book “Love Memory: A Memoir & A Practice” edited by Marci McPhee) talks about her own story growing up to in a multi-ethnic/culture/religious family and her personal journey in the LDS Church and her “soft separation from the Church” leading to her current role as a Baptist Pastor. Fatimah, who is respectful of the Church, talks about God’s love for all God's children, seeing a social justice charge in our scriptures, and the need to bring those on the margins into full inclusion. Fatimah gives advice for younger people including “being the greatest explorer of your life” and how she, as a clergy member, has a responsibility to learn, grow, apologize, an

My friend Jake Yates joins us to bravely share his story. Jake (mid 30’s, RM, father of two, recently divorced, in same-sex relationship, respectful of and believes in the Church) joins us to share his story. Jake starts with the early years (growing up in Sandy, Utah) realizing he was different. Those feelings continued through high school and his mission. Jake, to “prove” he wasn’t gay, was unkind to LGBTQ+ individuals so he wouldn’t be “discovered". Jake talks about returning home from his mission and getting married and then being called to church leadership assignments but feeling two-faced because of his sexual orientation—which led to suicidal ideation. That road continued for many years (including being saved from suicide by his then wife). Jake talks about personal revelation, journaling, scripture study, and his poor emotional health—leading him to come out to his wife (good experience) and then his Bishop (while serving as his counselor; also a good experience) and then his Stake Preside

My friend Brooke Booth (no longer participating LDS, husband is active LDS, married mother of four, RM, BYU Grad, Lawyer) joins us to talk about her work to help couples navigate being in a mixed-faith marriage. Brooke’s work is not to pull people out of the LDS church—but rather to use principles, practices, insights, and her own lived experiences to help marriages remain strong, healthy, supportive and thrive. I was deeply moved by Brooke and her work. I’m grateful for all the wonderful work/service she gave for many years in our Church—and her current work to support couples in mixed-faith marriages. If you are in a mixed-faith married, working to help others, or want to improve relationships, I encourage you to listen to Brooke’s podcast and connect with her work. I was so impressed with Brooke’s maturity, honoring/supporting everyone’s journey, and her work to strengthen relationships. Thank you, Brooke, for being on the podcast. You are a good soul. Links: Brooke’s website: Brooke

My friends Tami Carson (married mother of 7, active LDS, employee at Utah Foster Care) and Marshall Shearer (married transgender man, foster parent, adopted 5 children) joins us to talk about Utah Foster Care and LGBTQ youth. Marshall starts with his story of being a transgender man and his journey to love and accept himself. Marshall then talks about the decision with his wife to become foster parents and eventually adopt 5 children—two are LGBTQ. Marshall talks about the principles of strong parenting which included the ability to nurture, care, stability, and open communication. We talk about how LGBTQ parents are just as effective parents as straight parents. Tami shares her story of parenting a LGBTQ child and how initial fear led to love and support including this line “after fear love is all that is left”. Tami talks about how she loves and supports her friend Marshall and his ability to be an effective employee at Utah Foster Care and a wonderful parent. This is a beautiful story invitin

My friend Jaci Wightman (married mother of 7, LDS author, faith-based wellness coach) joins us to talk about her new book called “Ignited”. The book is a call to anyone who’s ever felt dead inside or empty or restless or numb or just feels like their inner flame has blown out. The book looks at the powerful solutions that are found in the scriptures to heal these feelings. In the podcast, Jaci talks about moving beyond a ‘check-list’ approach to a more principled approach to find peace, eternal life, and hope now. Jaci takes a doctrinally sound approach sharing what she has learned from the scriptures to “ignite” gospel teachings into her life now. It is a beautiful and practical approach for all of us to have more hope and peace now—anchored in our relationship with Jesus and knowledge we are divine children of Heavenly Parents. I was so moved listening to Jaci. I encourage everyone to check out her book and her website. Thank you Jaci for all the good you are doing in our community! Links: