Listen, Learn & Love Hosted By Richard Ostler

My friend Eliza Riggs (age 22, RM/Orem Utah, UVU Student) joins us to share her story including: Great Parents, Queer Friendly Home Came out first to her Heavenly Parents—positive experience Felt lots of pressure to fit in the Church as a Bishop’s daughter, wasn’t working, difficult chapter Joined girl’s high school wrestling team—“saved my life” Youth conference and surprising thought to serve a mission Mom buying her rainbow sheets before coming out to her Being called to Orem, Utah (initial disappointment—but then powerful revelation) Great experience coming out to her Mission President Coming out to her parents—super positive Her queer identity is celebrated in heaven Thank you, Eliza, for your courage to share your story which will help so many. You are awesome. Honored to have you on the podcast. Encourage everyone to listen to and share this episode. Links: Eliza’s Instagram: @elizariggs31

I was invited to be on my friend Tate Arnold’s show (Over___Soul) to share my story. I’ve posted that show as Episode 864 on our platform so you could listen here. Thank you, Tate, for letting me be on your show. You are a good man doing great work! Please check out and follow Tate on Instagram @Over___Soul

In one of our most important episodes, David joins us to talk about his new book “Devout—Losing My Faith to Find Myself”. In this episode, David talks about his journey with God to find his path forward as a queer Mormon considering suicide—a path that led David to separate himself from the Church—taking God with him—and live authentically. David gives excellent advice to younger queer people and parents to better support queer kids. I conclude with some of my thoughts on continuing to love and support those that leave our Church (not making them the hero on day for staying in the church and the villain the next day for leaving) and thanking David for his many years of service in the Church and the countless lives he has blessed. Thank you, David, for being on our podcast and your courage to continue to share your story. You are one of my heroes—you continue to help so many find hope in their lives. I encourage everyone to listen/share this episode and consider what we can do to better suppo

My friend Tate Arnold (married father of two, active LDS) joins us to share the following: * Difficult chapters including his father-in-law Paul dying by suicide * Needed a different path forward-choosing a "path of transformation" * Positive/life changing experience with psychedelics * Helped him "not pass down trauma to future generations" * Remade his career to be "aligned with eternal soul" * Life work around helping people be aligned with how they are * Love of and support for his transgender sister and the queer community including his former companion Matt Easton * Why he stated "Over____Soul" It is an honor to have Tate (who is a dear family friend and missionary companion to our son Matt in Sydney Australia) on the podcast. He is an "old soul" with incredible insights into how to love and support others. If you are looking to find more peace and hope in your life, please listen to Tate's podcast and connect with his work-work that is so ne

Club Officers (Douglas Williams, Madi Davis, Bohin Tenney and Brandon Pattillo) from a club at BYU (called The Un-Alone Club) join us to talk about their club's efforts to help themselves and others have better tools and support to solve porn use. In the podcast, each club officer shares their own experience with pornography usage and what has helped them to better understand their porn use and better tools/support for recovery. If you are working to solve porn use in your own life or better tools to help others, please listen to and share this podcast. And if you are a BYU student looking for support, please check out/join their club (see show notes below). Thank you, Doug, Madi, Bohin, and Brandon—you are some of my new heroes. Your courage to share your story and create a safe place for others is making a difference for good in so many lives. Links: Instagram Account: @un.alone.byu E-mail: lovebetter@byu.edu Madi Davis earlier podcast: https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-622-m

My friend Rev. Jamie White (Pastor at First Presbyterian Church of Salt Lake City, theological/pastoral education from Vanguard University and Princeton Seminary, married mother of three) joins us to share her story including: * Being raped at age 18, becoming pregnant, keeping her child—now her eldest son/recently married * Feeling her life was ruined. No hope. Deep anger. Could have killed her abuser * Writing letters to her unborn son * The support that saved her; parents and faith community, and her mom's tough advice * Therapist jolting comment: “This tragedy must become your greatest treasure.” Initial anger at this comment—but became true. * Hard work to find peace and forgiveness—loving your enemies. * Finding her husband Dave—and building a life together. * Creating space in her congregation for diversity rather than uniformity, tough work but worth it * Acceptance and love of queer members of her congregation—including the story of a thriving transgender member. If you are looking fo

My friend Dr. Ben Bailey (PhD from BYU in Psychology currently working at UVU as a Mental Health Therapist) joins us to talk about things close to his heart and work as a therapist to bring more hope and understanding, reduce divisiveness, and bring us together as the same human family including: * Nonviolent Communication (NVC) as a framework to become a better peacemaker * Moving from judgmental thinking into a language of feelings and needs * Understanding differences in others by understanding their needs * How to talk across difference with people who have different opinions than us about the rights of LGBTQ individuals * Distinguishing empathy from agreement (understanding someone does not require endorsing their beliefs) * Prioritizing safety before connection * A more compassion focused approach to understanding pornography use * Normalizing and having a better approach to doubt Thank you, Ben, for being on the podcast. I learned so much from you on how to feel better about ourselves and bring us to

My friends Rhonda Monson (married mother of three, recently returned senior missionary, LGBTQIA ally, therapist, life coach, and retreat facilitator) and Dakota Moses (gay, age 30, married to his husband Tyree for 8+ years, deeply spiritual) join us to share their story. Dakota starts and shares with us his journey being gay and LDS (and out before the age of 12) to his parents and his local leaders. Dakota talks about how he was not “permitted to be himself, or even be” and painful church experiences along the way. Dakota talks about doing everything he could to serve a mission but how that dream eventually shifted—and the deep spiritual impressions along the way. Rhonda (whose former husband is gay) talks about her love and support of Dakota and how she is both an active Latter-day Saint and loves the LGBTQIA people in her life. She talks about her wonderful son Dakota and his husband Tyree and her love of them, the good men they are, and keeping the family circle together. They talk about a new

** This podcast talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988 ** My friend Gordon Laws joins us to talk about supporting Dave and Kimi Martin when they lost their transgender son Levi to suicide in Dec 2022. Gordon talks about Levi—a bright, capable, curious young man—and the difficult journey he walked having Swyer Syndrome and being transgender. Gordon talks about the valiant efforts of Dave and Kimi to support their son. Gordon talks about the immediate days after Levi died and his role to minister to the Martin family—including writing his obituary and eulogy. Gordon talks about ministering principles to support others in their time of crisis/need—principles that help us all do better. Gordon talks about how the Savior ministers to those on the margins and invites us to better understand, love, and support transgender people. Thank you, Gordon for being on the podcast. I learned so much from you. I encourage everyone to listen to and share this episode. Levi’s

My friend Stephanie Roach—who is married mother of two special needs children age 24 (daughter) and age 22 (son)—joins us to share how we can better support friends and family members with specific needs. In the episode, Stephanie talks about the following: 1. Historical treatment of individuals with special needs 2. Geraldo Rivera’s documentary 3. Improved laws and understanding—often led by special needs folks 4. Utah Parent Center—great resource 5. Insights and examples on how we can do better 6. Suggestions from her daughter I learned so much from Stephanie about how to better support the special needs people in my life—I wish I had listened to this episode decades ago. Stephanie is also the person who suggested the name of our podcast “Listen, Learn and Love” about 8 years ago. I will be forever grateful to Stephanie for her help. Thank you, Stephanie, for coming on the podcast. Your family is awesome. I encourage everyone to listen and share this episode. Links: Utah Parent Center

My friend Alex Cutini joins us to share his story: Alex Cutini grew up Catholic in Brazil, sensing early on that he was different from the other boys. At 18, his search for meaning led him to join the LDS Church, serve a mission a year later in Porto Alegre, Brazil, and eventually move to the United States to graduate from BYU-Idaho. Beneath the surface, the strain of hiding who he was grew into profound depression and moments of suicidal ideation. Coming out meant stepping away from the church and facing the heartbreak of family members who struggled to accept him. Yet alongside that pain came grace: a deep, enduring love with his husband Matt, now married for ten years, and unexpected, unwavering support from his mission president and the missionary and family who baptized him. As both of their families slowly learned how to love more fully, Alex found his way forward—toward healing, purpose, and ultimately becoming the CEO of Encircle, where his story now helps save lives. Alex then shares the story of

My friend Amy Watkins Jensen (teacher, writer, active LDS, founder of “Women on the Stand”) join us to share her story including: * Growing up Mormon in Chicago * Mission to Argentina—first awareness of gendered imbalance * Brother coming out as gay * Carol Lynn Pearson’s living room * Y/W LGBTQ service project * Backstory starting “Women on the Stand” * Area Presidency ending practice, heartache, letter writing * President Oak’s recent invitation on the need to do better * Best practices Any shares powerful and important principles behind the movement (which isn’t asking for doctrinal changes) including: * Aligning of practices with our doctrine (which is divine equality) * Respectfully relentless If you are looking to better support Latter-day Saint women, please listen to this podcast and connect with Amy’s work. As Amy teaches “It will help us come closer to the divine equality that is our doctrine—and part of our beautiful theology—allowing us to thrive”. Thank you, Amy, for your great work. You

*Note: This episode is about my goal to reduce the tension between those who stay in the Church and those who leave** My friend Andy Newman (married father of three, Ex-Mormon, therapist, LGBTQ ally, bridge builder) join us to discuss: * Understanding/supporting your spouse that left the church * Understanding/supporting your spouse that stays in the church * What helps couple stay strong * Shares values over shared beliefs * The Gottman Method * A,C,T,S Andy’s work is more than theoretical—as he talks “in-real-life” about how this works in their marriage with examples of how he supports his wife and three daughters in their church attendance (including giving a talk at a daughter’s baptism) and the peace he has found with people he loves holding different beliefs. Andy mentions the work of Allan and Kattie Mount and their podcast “Marriage on a Tightrope”. Thank you, Andy, for bringing your clinical expertise and own personal journey to help those in a mixed-faith marriage. I learned so much fro

My friend Rebecca Mullen (lives in Colorado, master certified life coach) joins us to talk about her work of healing including: * Becoming an LGBTQ ally in her younger years * Removing shame and providing healing * Helping everyone to be their authentic selves * Loving people that Churches don’t always love/accept * Principles for managing marriage conflict * Importance and application of love If you are looking for insights/perspectives to heal and bring people closer together, Rebecca’s work will help you. Thank you, my friend Rebecca, for being on the podcast—your great heart—and all you are doing to bring us together as the same human family. Links: Rebecca’s web site (you can find her contact info, life coach work, podcast and book here): https://RebeccaMullenCoaching.com/ Outdoor Therapist episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/dk/podcast/episode-736-zak-hazlett-the-outdoor-therapist/id1347971725?i=1000645256176

My friend Katie Searle (certified mediator, philanthropic consultant, grant writer, and mother) joins us to share her story, including: * Being raised in two homes after parents divorced (mother and her wife; father and his wife) * Going to BYU-Hawaii, part of Dr Chad Ford’s Peacebuilding Program and working at the McKay Center for Intercultural Understanding, temple marriage * Co-founding Kinfolk Magazine, adapting to the pace of a fast growing start-up Leaving the Church (LGBTQIA+ issues/feeling uneasy with messages that harmed people she loves, valuing authenticity over obedience, developing own moral compass) * Moving to Copenhagen and heartbreaking loss of a baby son Leo, at 5 months pregnant; the isolation of grieving abroad without community * Becoming pregnant again, husband coming out as gay, marriage ending Moving back to Oregon, managing heartbreak, daughter born, support from mother and her wife * Falling in love with Joe, his death on the day he was to move in, profound grief Opening heart

My friend Isaac Durfey (who was on episode 833) joins us to update listeners on his journey including: * Parent leaving on a mission * What happened to help him stopping “hating himself for being gay” * Importance of new beginnings * Friends like Jake and Joe Sharp (who were on episode 811) * Feeling about the Family Proclamation * Hope for the future * Love of the LDS Church and the support/love he receives Thank you, my friend Isaac, for being on the podcast—you are a good man. Links: Episode 833: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/episode-833-isaac-durfey-black-gay-latter-day-saint/id1347971725?i=1000710494050 Episode 811: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/episode-811-jake-and-joe-sharp-lost-brother-sam-to/id1347971725?i=1000691741343

My friend Russ Hinckely (mid 60s, married father of three, lives in Arizona, career in business) joins us to talk about his new book “Beyond Belief”. Russ’s book focuses “not just what we hold in our minds and hearts, but what we DO and how we actually LIVE the teachings of Christ (from Ashlie Carnecelli)—and “how one can truly follow Jesus in walking the path rather than just believing in it (from Jeff Anderson).” “Beyond Belief” is a pragmatic look at what Jesus taught and the behaviors He modeled. While creeds highlight foundational elements of our beliefs, they are only the starting point to living His teachings. One Amazon reviewer writes “ Russ Hinckley's "Beyond Belief" where we are reminded to get back to the basics of what Jesus was all about.” If you are looking for a book to put into action Jesus’s teachings to bless/help/heal others (and ourselves), please listen to this podcast and read/share Russ’s powerful book. Thank you, Russ, for helping us move “beyond belief” to make the teachings

My friend Dr. Chad Ford (Associate Professor of Religious Studies at Utah State University, prior director of McKay Center at BYU-Hawaii, expert of conflict resolution, PhD Georgetown University, joins us to talk about his new book published by Deseret Book “Seventy Times Seven: Jesus’s Path to Conflict Transformation”. Amazon reviews mention “one of the best they’ve read about Jesus, how it inspires readers to embrace compassion, encourages reflection and discussion, and practical application”. Chad talks about the “Gospel of Reconciliation” using the teachings and example of Jesus to apply to our lives. In the podcast he talks about principals to reduce tension and increase understand between current Latter-day Saints and former Latter-day Saints—and also to manage political tension within our congregations. Chad also talks about REPAIR (inaugural event in October 2025) bringing together world-class peacemakers to help attendees have better skills to navigate conflict. If you are looking to be a

*Note: This episode is about my goal to reduce the tension between those who stay in the Church and those who leave** My friend Andy Newman (married father of three, Ex-Mormon, therapist, LGBTQ ally, bridge builder) joins for a series of episodes. In this episode, Andy talks about “the shame train” during his youth including: *Porn, substance use, and working with his church leaders * Shame around the “addiction label”, restrictions (temple trips), and falsely seeing himself as a “terrible addict” * How porn/substance use was more about self-medicating from the shame and trauma than a desire to displease God * How his worth become dependent on church leaders * All the people who helped him along the way Andy then talks about his road to be an LGBTQ ally: * Started in high school in Iowa with proximity to queer people * Felt he had to choose the Church over queer people * Powerful post-mission experience giving a blessing to a queer student at BYU-I * Fully taking on the ally role following the pulse

My friend Suzie Greco—a survivor of child sex abuse and domestic abuse, a Latter-day Saint, a Harvard Divinity School graduate (Master's in Theology), a doctoral candidate, and an advocate in numerous organizations working to end abuse—joins us to share her powerful story and discuss her new book, The Stone Sphere. In this must-listen-to podcast, Suzie shares: * The meaning behind the title and image on the front cover of the book. Untrained Ministry and Institutional Harm, including both positive and negative experiences with her Stake President, David F. Hollard—who gave Suzie permission to include his name and their experiences in the book. * A Transformative Theology of Forgiveness—a much healthier framework for healing. * Pathways to Healing, Redemption, and Spiritual Transcendence, the golden thread of the book. It's hard to overstate the power and importance of this conversation. Suzie is doing breakthrough, trailblazing work. I learned so much and was deeply moved. If you are a survivor of abuse