Cross & Gavel Audio

Law Student Ministries Director Mike Schutt lists five simple things for law students to consider as they start their summer. His five areas of suggested focus: 1. Devotional Habits 2. Leisure 3. Read [some law stuff] 4. Talk to Your Family 5. Think about the Fall Semester [sorry] Mike Schutt is the host of Cross & Gavel audio and the director of LSM, Attorney Ministries, and the Institute for Christian Legal Studies. Find out more about these ministries of the Christian Legal Society at ChristianLawyer.org.

Wendy L. Patrick is a San Diego County Deputy District Attorney in the Special Operations Division. She previously served in the Sex Crimes and Human Trafficking Division of the San Diego DA's office, where she prosecutor predators, human traffickers, stalkers, rapists, and child molesters. She has completed over 160 trails from first degree murder, to sex crimes, to domestic violence.  She also co-chairs both the California DA's Association Sexually Violent Predator Committee and its Human Trafficking Committee. So Wendy Patrick knows what she's talking about when it comes to crimes related to human trafficking. Join Wendy and host Mike Schutt (sitting on the rooftop of the clubhouse at the Legend Safari Resort a few hours north of Pretoria South Africa, I kid you not) as they discuss current trends in human trafficking, suggestion for action, and how we might help survivors.  What can we do to move beyond awareness? Can prosecutorial work be ministry? Is human trafficking a symptom of something else? Think

Join the Christian Legal Society staff for a roundtable discussion about the calling to minister to law students and lawyers. How did we get here? What are we doing? What does law have to do with the kingdom of Christ?  Six CLS staffers talk around the table about their own backgrounds, mission, and convictions -- and why their work with CLS really matters.  The discussion ranges from law school experiences, to the foundations of vocational thinking, to BigLaw issues, to work-iife balance, to cultural engagement and religious liberty and beyond. It's good, clean fun! Come and listen in. It will be a good introduction to the work of CLS if you you don't know us, and it is an edifying conversation with friends if you're already part of the family.  David Nammo is Executive Director of the Christian Legal Society.  Peter Smith is CFO and COO of CLS. Kim Colby is Director of the Center for Law and Religious Freedom. Mike Schutt is Director of CLS Attorney Ministries and Law Student Ministries. Brent Amato is CLS

In his more than 20 years working with Christian law student groups on campus, Professor Richard Leiter has learned a thing or two about the challenges they face. In this episode, he discusses "being" who we are called to be as Christian law students engaging the campus for Christ. It turns out that Rich thinks "being" is far more important than any of the particulars of what we set out to "do."   Join us for this discussion as we kick around ideas on living out one's faith on campus, what lawyers can do to help, and the joy of being in Christian community even in the midst of the rigors of law school. Along the way, we talk about "mentoring," false measures of success and unrealistic expectations, and the difficulty of building relationships. Follow up and let us know what you think! Richard Leiter is the Director of the Schmid Law Library and Professor at the University of Nebraska College of Law. He is also the editor of the award-winning law reference work National Survey of State Laws (7th ed., Wm S. Hei

Leah Boyd did not take the straight path to a career in human rights work in Africa. She graduated from a good law school, went to work at one of Texas' largest law firms doing commercial litigation, and was laid off. After a fellowship with International Justice Mission, a trip to Antarctica (of course!), and a gentle reminder from God, she became the Director of Justice Initiatives at ALARM -- African Leadership and Reconciliation Ministries (ALARM), encouraging lawyers in Africa and the West to live out their faith with their legal talents.  Leah takes teams of lawyers to Africa, encouraging and equipping local law enforcement, lawyers, and judges to fight human rights abuses in their communicates. Listen in as Leah tells a small piece of her story and of the story of ALARM, and some stories of those who have been blessed through their work. You'll be encouraged and challenged as you listen! You can learn more about the work of ALARM at www.ALARM-inc.org and you may contact Leah Boyd at Leah@ALARM-inc.org.

Does it matter how we "experience" the the Bible? Do we encounter it as a reference work, in which we look up stuff, or as a text in which to immerse ourselves? C&G guest Mark Bertrand believes that these are important questions. Bertrand says that the Bible involves one of the most important-- and most challenging-- design projects in history. Design decisions create or remove barriers to entering into the text, and often traditional design choices actually hinder our reading and interpretation. These are significant  issues, to say the least. Join Mark and host Mike Schutt as they discuss Bible design and its implications, and you'll find out, among other things, whether St. Paul will be offended if we remove the verse numbers from our Bibles, whether Jesus actually spoke only in red, and whether you are more holy if you read the Bible on see-through pages. J. Mark Bertrand is a novelist living in South Dakota. His crime noir works are Back on Murder, Pattern of Wounds, and Nothing to Hide. His book [Re

On January 11, 2010, Jim Gash, then Dean of Students at Pepperdine Law School, met Henry, a Ugandan boy accused of two murders, in a Ugandan "Remand Home," a sparse jail for juveniles awaiting trail. Henry had been held there since 2008, awaiting a hearing. This meeting, by God's grace, changed Jim's life. It also helped change the criminal trial court system in Uganda and bring justice to hundreds of children awaiting trial without hope. As Jim says, "I took a step of faith, and it changed everything." Listen to Jim tell his story and Henry's story-- ultimately God's story of grace and mercy and justice-- as he talks about his new book, Divine Collision: An African Boy, An American Lawyer, and Their Remarkable Battle for Freedom (Worthy 2016). Jim talks about how God brought about justice for Henry, how He used American lawyers to effect legal reform, and how He can overcome our "fear of success" to take us where He wants us to go. Jim admits that had he known the plans that God had for him, he might have st

Ken Liu is Director of Christian Legal Aid Ministries for the Christian Legal Society. He says that his call into this ministry began when he, as a teenager, began to be serious about his Christian walk and to understand God's compassion for the poor. Listen as he discusses his road to using his legal skills to serve the poor, first as a reluctant lawyer, then an enthusiastic volunteer, and now as Director of a national legal aid ministry. Listeners will be inspired and challenged as they listen to Ken's heart for those in need. If God calls us to seek justice for the poor, and lawyers have a monopoly on providing legal care, then lawyers must have a special responsibility before God to serve those in need with the legal gifts God has given them. Listen in as Ken and Mike Schutt discuss Ken's personal journey, his current work in supporting legal aid work, CLS resources available to attorneys, and suggestions for developing a heart of compassion. Whether you are simply interested in learning more about Christ

Charlie Clauss says that it's okay to cry out against our current secularized, commercial, extended version of Christmas. He says that people are hungry for something more substantial than the "war" over Christmas or the 60-day shopping spree, hungry for something that will feed our souls as we mark time in the world. And that's where the season of Advent can help.  In this episode, Charlie and Mike discuss why Advent is the perfect antidote to the commercialization and secularization of Christmas, and why it is also much much more than that. Advent is not an extended Christmas, or "Christmas Lite." It's a season that reminds Christ followers to reflect on their lives in light of the coming of Christ-- His coming in glory to set all things right. Jesus is coming, and He's coming whether we're ready or not-- and that is reason for hope as well as for self-examination. The discussion ranges from the history of the season, to ideas on how to observe it well, to thoughts on how to not to be an Advent snob, and to

In the First Ever First Annual Cross & Gavel Thanksgiving podcast, host Mike Schutt and Christian Legal Society Executive Director David Nammo list many of the things in their lives and work for which they are thankful. Along the way, they talk about their families, youth ministry, Vanderbilt Law School, candy corn, Narnia, the books that have shaped them, youth ministry, InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, courage, religious liberty, taste buds, George Washington's Thanksgiving Day Proclamation, and the CLS Board of Directors, among many many other things.  It's a fun conversation (for them, anyway), and they wonder if they will survive to record the First Annual Christmas podcast. Listen in and let us know! It is our hope that this light-hearted exercise in spontaneous, detailed conversation naming our blessings will inspire you to do the same this Thanksgiving. Enjoy. Mike Schutt is host of the Cross & Gavel Audio Podcast, and David Nammo is the CEO of the Christian Legal Society in Springfield, VA.

As the Executive Director of the Christian Legal Society, David Nammo spends time with hundreds of lawyers and future lawyers every year. Mike Schutt begins this episode by asking him, "What are lawyers and students thinking-- what are they worried about these days?"  The ensuing conversation touches on matters of ethics, habits, cultural pressures, temptation, the role of professional communities, the local congregation, and much more. Dave believes one of the central tasks of life in the law is to seek God. As we seek Him, we better understand our unique calling in the profession.  Listen in and be encouraged  David Nammo is the Executive Director and CEO of the Christian Legal Society. Mike Schutt is host of Cross & Gavel Audio and Director of Law Student Ministries and Attorney Ministries for CLS.  For more information on CLS, visit www.christianlawyer.org Episodes of C&G Audio previous to #35 are available at the CLS Website. 

Trinity Law School Dean Myron Steeves has a vision for lawyers in ministry across the country. He says we ought to be looking for attorneys in the mold of the great reformer John Knox, who famously said, "Give me Scotland or I die," to gather and encourage lawyers in their mission in every city and every county. In this episode, Dean Steeves articulates this broad mission: addressing injustice, pursuing law reform, engaging in prayer ministry at the courthouse, encouraging church-centered mediation, and heeding the vocational call to minister to the client as a "whole person," among other things. The conversation begins with host Mike Schutt asking how Christian attorneys might encourage their pastors, who have some anxiety in the wake of the Obergefell decision. Dean Steeves, who also advises non-profits, has some wisdom on the question of what Obergefell does and does not do, and why he is optimistic, at least in the very long term.  As the discussion moves to discuss the calling of Christian lawyers, gener

Mike Peffer serves the Pacific Justice Institute as the Director of its Santa Ana office, and he sits down with C & G host Mike Schutt to talk about the work of PJI. Their conversation touches on trends in religious liberty cases, including zoning disputes, the need for ordinary attorneys to volunteer their time, and Christian Legal Aid.  Along the way, Peffer discusses his path to public interest law and recalls his rewarding work in Christian Legal Aid.  For more information about the Pacific Justice Institute, visit www.PJI.org.

Jamie Grosshans is a lawyer, a mom, and the wife of a lawyer. She believes that "balance" is a figment of somebody's imagination, that there is no traditional career path that is right for every woman, and that lawyers are stressed out. The good news is that she wouldn't trade her life for an ambassadorship and that she takes joy in her law practice and family, even in the face of a Pinterest account that tells her that her kids' snacks are inadequate.  Listen to her conversation with Mike Schutt, in which she shares her wisdom on mentors, the necessity of Christian community, and the proper use of ringtones. It's really good stuff.  Jamie's firm is Plain Street Law. She practices family law and criminal defense. She is a member of the Christian Legal Society and serves on the board of the Orlando chapter of CLS. She has three beautiful children. 

Atlanta lawyers Bill Hollberg amd Eric Wilborn are domestic lawyers who represent clients who don't want a divorce. It's a tough way to make a living, but they say that this is how God has called them to love their neighbors with their legal skills. Their goal in every case is the reconciliation and restoration of the marriage, a goal that they admit they rarely reach. What kind of divorce lawyers won't sue for divorce and refuse to handle "no-fault" cases? What leads an attorney to strive to treat opposing counsel and parties with kindness and patience, driven by the fruit of the Spirit? Listen in as Mike Schutt discusses domestic defense work with Hollberg and Wilborn. Their approach to law practice is driven by their faith, rooted in Scripture, and designed to love and serve others. You might even be encouraged to take a closer look at your approach to your own vocation as well! William B. Hollberg and Eric P. Wilborn are attorneys at Hollberg & Weaver LLP in Atlanta. Mike Schutt is director of Attorne

Host Mike Schutt talks with criminal defense attorney J.T. Borah about "representing the guilty" to the glory of God. Mr. Borah discusses why process is more important than truth in a criminal trial, why Blackstone was right that "it is better to let ten guilty escape," and why one prosecutor tried to prohibit him from citing the Founding Fathers in Voir Dire. It's a great conversation! This is a re-mixed recording of two previously published episodes early in the life of Cross & Gavel Audio. Rather than porting over the whole archive, we will from time to time re-publish older episodes to make our podcast library complete. 

Bill Jack thinks Christians suffer from swimming in the waters of secularism and that we're hooked on being popular. After Colorado baker Jack Phillips was punished for declining to bake a cake for a homosexual wedding, Bill asked an LBGT-friendly bakery to bake some cakes with Bible verses on them. Yet he doesn't believe cakes are the issue. Listen in as Bill talks with host Mike Schutt about the Obergefell decision, the Colorado cake capers, and the Church's challenge of proclaiming truth to those who don't wish to hear. Careful: He might step on your toes . . . and we sure wouldn't want to offend anyone, whould we?

Many are confused by the hype and hysteria surrounding RFRA -- the Religous Freedom Restoration Act, passed unanimously on the Federal level and signed into law by Bill Clinton. Why the hysteria over a similar act passed this year in Indiana? Why do both state AND federal RFRAs exist? And what is RLUIPA? Kim Colby, who has been involved in religious liberty work for close to 35 years, answers these questions and more in our discussion. Kimberllee Wood Colby is Senior Counsel and the Christian Legal Society's Center for Law and Religious Freedom.  Mike Schutt is CLS's director of the Institute for Christian Legal Studies and a visiting professor at Trinity Law School in Santa Ana, California.

Mike Schutt interviews Allisa Baier, an attorney with Open Door Legal Services at Seattle's Union Gospel Mission. Ms. Baer talks about her career path into legal aid, God's hand in using her in this field, and the challenges and rewards of working in Chrstiain Legal Aid.